Chapter 12: A modest conclusion


In this conclusive chapter, Shalit emphasizes the fact that we have entered an era characterized by the end of innocence. I do agree with her, today we do not even try to conserve the youngest's innocence. Sexuality is part of every single moment of our lives. The development of media and new communication technologies widely spread sexual messages even toward children. Today, marketers have included in their marketing strategies, especially in visual ads, the concept of selling sexy goods; from food to razors all make allusions to sex. Innocence is no longer a praised value in nowadays socities.
yaye

Chapt 11: in-class presentation substitution
I feel as though premarital sex makes woman lose a since of their virtues but not their ability to be modest. Does premarital sex make females have less or more modesty? 209

I cannot clearly take position for one view or the other. I do not necessarly believe that virginity is a condition to modesty. Is a virgin necessarily modest? Who can be considered as a virgin? If one is involved in sexual relation without having the hymen broken is this person still a virgin or not? If this same person has different experiences with different guys can the person still be classified as observing sexual modesty? I do not believe that modesty is about premarital abstinence, I think that it is mostly about one’s capacity to respect oneself and have boundaries. I think that modesty is more about making one’s self valuable.
As the example given by Shalit p 209 I have heard a lot of girls expressing regrets to have become sexually active before marriage. But I do believe that the matter is not to have sex before marriage. The matter is: do people have sex because they truly want it or because it is a social pressure? Virginity is no longer perceived as acceptable therefore people engage in sexual relations to conform to the rest of the society. Nobody wants be shown as monster for choosing a more virtuous path. I think that being sexual modest today is more about having clear boundaries about what one considers as correct and acceptable about sexuality and it is also to have a conscious of that it is a serious side of our lives of which we should think about seriously.
yaye

Chapter 11: Pining for Interference

In this chapter, Shalit presents the idea that as a society, we no longer care what other people are doing, in terms of modesty. I can't say that I agree with this statement. I know when I see people making out in a hallway or on the street, I cringe and say to myself get a room. Shalit says "even incest isn't really scandalous anymore"to me this idea is completely absurd (p197). I do not know about other people, but even the thought of that makes me sick. I feel that people do care what others do and are shocked or appaled to see certain things, for instance pda. But it is the fact that society has told us that PDA is what we are 'supposed' to do, and therefore if we feel awekward or uncomfortable we are supposed to hide these feelings and act as if nothing is happening.

-Kristine Jansen

Chapter 10

It is hard to believe that conventional wisdom suggests that those who are modest are running and hiding from sex. It is sad to me to think that if a person doesn't want to have sex than there is something wrong with them. Why should women who want to wait to have sex have to hide it from the world? People shouldn't feel guilty or out of place when they decide to wait. The decline in modesty that has become so real today has changed the way the people of this world view relationships. While one used to have to be ashamed and embarrassed of having sex, people are now becoming ashamed of waiting. A return to modesty may change that.

-Bryan Leonardy

Chapter 9 : Against the curing of womanhood

In this chapter, Shalit denounciates the movment that consists in giving women medecines to enable them to go over their emotions and feelings. Indeed as today we live in very "rational" societies; feelings, emotion and sensitivity occupy a reduce space and are barely allowed to be expressed. In relationship, one has to react scientifically to manage critical situations. Today sensitivity equal weakness and women, as usually, are the weakest sex that needs to be cured of its ability to express sensitivity. For me sensitivity distinguish Human from animals. More than being willing to cure woman sensitivity, it would be better working on men capacity to express feelings. We certainly need to act rational to survive in today global trends. At the same time doesn’t too much rationality leading to a disenchantment of the world?
yaye

Chapter 8: Male Character

Shalit offers the question "what can it mean to be afraid to be a gentleman?" (pg. 144)
I believe that both men and women are afraid of men being gentlemen. Women are afraid to admit that having a door held open for them or a chair pulled out is nice every once in a while. Because women are conditioned to believe that they must do it or risk seeming weak. Men, on the other hand, are afraid to do anythings at the risk of having the chair yanked out of their hands. I believe that it's not sexist to have a guy carry your bags for you or open a door, it's a courtesy. I also think that a women should be able to stand on her own two feet and handle herself in certain situations. Shalit makes a good point with the need to reassert a code of conduct for men and women. Both sexes need to reevaluate how they act towards members of the opposite sex, and adjust accordingly. Society has not so much lost modesty but rather respect. There is a lack of resprect for oneself and members of the opposite sex and once people regain respect for themselves and others. Modesty will won't be too far behind.

Kristine Jansen

Chapter 7: Can Modesty Be Natural?

Shalit uses this chapter to prove that sexual modesty is natural. She opens the chapter with a few examples to help make her point. She talks about Howard Stern and how he always wins the "game of vulgarity" by making women who are supposed to be "comfortable with their bodies" uncomfortable. She then talks about women who hold their skirts down when it is windy as a way to keep themselves from be exposed. She also talks about how girls don't like to hear things the way guys say it and think it. It may be what is going on but they just don't like hearing it in slang terms. Finally Shalit talks about how all young girls are modest and shy. All of these examples/proofs show that modesty is in fact natural. I believe that modesty is natural because I see it as a way women can protect themselves. Women should use modesty to get the respect they deserve. In some cases, the way a woman dresses shows what she expects and what she thinks of herself. This may not be the case everytime, but that is what people think. So while it may not be the intent of a person to look "immodest," it does seem to everyone else that that is what they are going for. We live in a very judgemental society and the way a person dresses is one of the first things we look at.
-Bryan Leonardy

Chapter 6: The Great Deception

In this chapter, the author denunciates the tendency spread by feminist urging women to act like men. This can be interpreted as hypocrisy. Why women would act like men when they are the first complaining about their behaviors and criticizing them? If we start acting like men we won’t have anything to say anymore, we won’t be able to complain and denunciate whatever we consider as disrespect and unfaithfulness. It is not said that women are not men’s equal, it is said that they are different. Indeed even if it is true that intellectually speaking we all are equal, concerning relationships men and women are different. I believe that a man has to struggle to receive favors from a woman that is the only way for him to know the value of what he is seeking for. It is also the way for him to be aware of how much he wants to be with that particular woman and how deep are his feelings.
W. Shalit says that: “Encouraged to act immodestly, a woman exposes her vulnerability and she then becomes, in fact, the weaker sex”. Maybe we can be more flexible by saying that it is not only modesty that makes a woman value but overall it is her capacity to make herself valuable and not easy to reach.
yaye

Chapter 5: Forgiving Modesty

Shalit starts this chapter off by discussing the two different types of modesty. One being related to humility and the other being in terms of sexual modesty. I like how she makes the distinction between the two because they are very different. Shalit then, however, begins to compare them and show how they are related and how they affect each other. Later in the chapter, Shalit says, "I've never heard a woman regret too little sexual experiences, but I often hear a woman regret too much. While this seems logical, I would like to know who she is talking to and why she thinks she can generalize her findings to include all women. Don't get me wrong, I do not doubt her statement at all. I do, however, have a problem with her using it as supporting evidence to back up her claim. She assumes that the women she has talked to are the same as every other woman in the United States.

-Bryan Leonardy

Chapter 4: New Perversions

I feel that women want a little bit of both worlds. In a sense, woman are a little like hypocrites. We want to be able to get a high paying job yet still have doors opened for us. I don't necessarily want to be treated like a princes nor do I want to be treated like one of the guys. It's the idea that women can go into the world and accomplish things, yet still be a mother or a wife. To be an extremist is usually never a good thing, whether a feminist or the opposing side. I know my themes are becoming redundant, but a lot of issues today are from lack of compromise. We all need to give a little, men and women.

Kristine Jansen

Chapter 3: The Fallout

Chapter 3 talks about how guys treat women with no respect and think that it is ok to force sex on them. Forcing sex on another person is NEVER acceptable. It is their body and they should be able to choose what they want to do with it. I agree with Shalit that if every woman was treated respectfully and as a lady, it would decrease the harassment that has become so common today. While it is great, as a guy, to know that your girlfriend feels safer with you around, it is a shame that girls need protection in the first place.
The chapter also talks about how guys pressure girls into having sex and they just can't say no. If a girl does not want to have sex, then she should avoid being in a situation where a guy could talk her into it. If that's not possible, then the girl should say no and not be persuaded. I can only think of one reason why a girl would say yes when she really wants to say no. That is that she doesn't want to lose the guy. If a guy is going to dump a girl because she won't have sex with him, then it just wasn't going to work out in the first place. It will not be a long lasting relationship. So say no, have no regrets, and find a guy that will respect you.
-Bryan Leonardy

Chapter 2: Postmodern Sexual Etiquette

In this chapter, Shalit presents the three stages of a relationship, the hook-up, the dumping, and then the post-dumping checkup. To me, the idea that a relationship can be categorized is a bit unrealistic, but we have to take what she says as verifiable in order to analyze anything.

I don't really disagree with the hook-up and dumping stages of the relationship as she presents them. I do, however, disagree with the post-dumping checkup. Each relationship is its own individual thing and therefore cannot be categorized or generalized. Shalit generalizes the idea that post-dumping checkups are useless and cause more trouble than anything. Although this maybe true for some cases, the degree to which someone should 'checkup' on someone depends on the people and the relationship. I believe that people should try to remain friends after a serious relationship. You shared an intimate part of your life with someone and they helped shape who you are. Therefore, to competely cut out someone who you were with for four years, for example, seems a bit extreme. Although you may not go to the movies or hangout with them on a regular basis, the notion that the two of you are still friends and on good terms is a sign of maturity. It's a bit middle schoolish for someone to no longer continue contact with someone just because the two of them aren't in a serious relationship anymore.

Kristine Jansen

Chapter 1:The War on Embarrassment

Wendy Shalit assumes that early sexual education program vulgarizes the notion of sex among children. Thus, children become sexually active when they cannot assume all the responsibilities it implies. The author tries to show us that sexual education programs alienate children from the natural established way things are suppose to be; and have led to unselfconciousness toward sex.
As for me, I think that it is an over-simplified explanation to the evolution of sexual behaviors through the last three decades. Sexual education programs might be somehow involved in the ways people approaches sex nowadays, but we have to underline that there is a lot of other factors that influence an individual. The first socializing agent remains family, and before school it is within one's family that he/she acquire a certain amount of values, "norms", and ideology. So it seems like accusing sexual education programs can be questioned.
yaye.